The Founders of Neithernor

So in Anne of Brittany’s court in the late 15th century there were two factions, the Monarchs and the Silver, made up of artists and artisans which Anne was a patron of. After Anne’s death they split due to their difference in beliefs about magiq and how to find it, what its purpose was ect. The cause of this was a tapestry called The Unicorn’s Gait which was destroyed when Anne died. Anne believed there was another world beyond our own that we could access if we knew how to. The Monarchs and Silver also believed this which is why they created artifacts from the tapestry.

The Monarchs and the Silver then set out to find a door to a place that was neither here nor there. The Monarchs found it first, the world of Neithernor that once teemed with magiq but was now in ruins. In Neithernor they found six great halls that lay in ruin each with histories, crests and belief systems. They scrapped together what they could and created their own belief system and history which are the 6 Royal Houses.

The Silver never found the Gate, but they knew the Monarchs had so after centuries of tension and strife they begged for entrance to Neithernor. The Monarchs granted their request but only if the Silver agreed to go to an island across the sea where they could have their own Magiqal place.

The House of Silver arose on this island and became a dark and terrifying place. It was the birthplace of The War and The Palace of a Thousand Doors. Also the island has no WiFi. The Silver and the Monarchs lived in peace and shaped the world together for a while until the Silver began building their own door. This is all from Sullivans point of view and what he gathered together. We know from Woolie that the Silver launched a suprised attack on the Monarchs most likely when the Monarchs called a council with the silver to stop them building the door. However we can only speculate on this. We do know a massacre of the Monarchs Royal House’s leaders kicked off The War of Neithernor. Eventually the silver we beaten and kicked out of Neithernor and the doors to it were sealed.

“…finally a parley had been agreed upon. It was decided that an assembly of house leaders would await them at the eastern shore at the dawn of Assembler’s Day. But they never meant to parley. They came as night fell on Assembler’s Eve. I stood at the watch. Was trusted as the first sight. I looked across the cold and silver swirling sea. I was the one who first saw them coming. I was the one who knew. And saw it all begin. I saw them, carried by wing, and wind, and blood-black sails. I was trusted as the first sight, but I stood, watching, unable to move, unable to speak. Unable to sound the cry. I failed. Frozen there as a great black wave of water rose up, obscuring their envoy, and laying waste to the house leaders who made camp on the shores. I watched them fall from sight beneath the mouth of the sea, the ice brine reaching up to the tower, and then the final silence fell up on me.” - Woolie

When we met Mr Wideawake he says;

“I asked him what Neithernor really was. How it came to be. He said according to what’s left of the Monarch history (which may not be completely accurate) there was experimentation with wells. They were hoping to find answers about our changed world in them, and sometime in the Book of The Wild someone managed to harvest a piece of the Fray deep within a well, to study, but it began to grow. They were afraid it would take over our world so they tried to send it back, but reaching out to The Fray is unpredictable and dangerous and it wouldn’t accept the piece. They tried to destroy it and thought they had but it actually grew just outside our world, and it eventually became Neithernor. A place where magiq and imagination could be fully realised without limit, without fear of misunderstanding or retribution, but with its own risks and dangers.”


“In the book for the wild someone managed to harvest a piece of the Fray deep within a well to study, but it began to grow. They were afraid it would take over our world so they tried to send it back, but reaching out to The Fray is unpredictable and dangerous and it wouldn’t accept the piece. They tried to destroy it and thought they had but it actually grew just outside our world, and it eventually became Neithernor. A place where magiq and imagination could be fully realized without limit, without fear of misunderstanding or retribution, but with its own risks and dangers.”

So thats the background information out of the way. Now the question is who created/found Neithernor and created the 6 houses that the Monarchs found?


Foot notes of Insanity;

(Sorry this is very messy amd patchy I don’t have the finesse and grace of @Robert’s and @Revenir’s writing skills)


Nothing useful to add, just :deirdrexd:


Just to add to the background info, I’m linking some more info we got back in February about Neithrnor. Not entirely sure how much it’ll add to the info you’ve already provided.

Information Uncovered - The Wool, The Silver, The Guilds


Thanks Helios! That link is to basically the in-world version of this thread. If I’d found your thread earlier I’d have just added my question there but at least here we can discuss it more freely without breaking immersion :laughing:


Ooh! :raised_hand_with_fingers_splayed: I know! I know!



Quick someone grab the gin and tonic!


So we know that each Royal Houses guarded one of the core tenets of The Order and the houses activity remained secret from each other to protect The Faith. However, does this mean that the Monarchs are The Order as they created the Royal houses from the what they found in Neithernor? Maybe they didn’t become Monarchs Mountain till after they lost Neithernor. Maybe the true name of the Monarchs was actually The Order of the Monarchs?

the Guilds were once Royal Houses within an organisation known as The Order

If this is true then it would tie some loose ends together, what do you guys think?


So I’ve been doing some more digging and I think I know who The Acolytes are. Simply put they’re us or whatever version of us, like the 94 mounties, is carrying out the will of the Monarchs who are The Council of the 18 Gates.

They care for you as they have never cared for previous manipulated acolytes

Yep, you heard that right I believe that the Monarchs are The Council of the 18 Gates because after The War of Neithernor the Monarchs were almost wiped out. The Book of the Wild was then replaced by the Book of Kings and this is when I believe that they became Monarchs Mountain. However, some of The monarchs got trapped in the fray when the change occurred and became the council.

an unformed sort of purgatory where they became trapped when everything changed

They then worked to bring magiq back by sending the book of briars to Monarchs Mountain who used us, the acolytes, to make it happen. This change in name could also be why the houses became less formal and more ceremonial.

So quick timeline; The Order of the Monarchs finds Neithernor and builds their belief systems and Royal Houses around what they scrap together. The War of Neithernor happens and the Silver are kicked out and the doors sealed. The Order of the Monarchs leaves Neithernor and then at some point the book of wilds changes to the book of kings. Some of the Order get trapped in the fray and become the Council of 18 Gates. The Order then reorganises and becomes Monarchs Mountain the houses become less formal and the power is devolved to First Council, the Collector and the Acolytes. The Council of 18 Gates then send the Book of briars to Monarchs Mountain and the Silver create the Storm to wipe them out. However, the Silver fails but Monarchs Mountain allows them to think they succeeded by creating the Low and other disconnected factions to confuse them. The low and these factions are the Monarchs Mountain’s Acolytes along with the Mountaineers.

What do you guys think?

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:


Sounds cohesive, which is better than we had previously. You did good, rimor


This is interesting, but unfortunately I’ve gotta throw a wrench into the Council-As-Monarchs-Mountain train.

“Mr. Wideawake” (the blog post, not the character) is where we get a lot of our understanding of the modern Monarch’s Mountain. In that, he specifically mentions his associates as a separate entity of the Council of 13 Gates. Also of note, the goals of the Council and MM are somewhat opposed - MM is doing very little besides watching the events while the Council essentially sacrificed everything to open the Book of Briars. In the end, the Council was the one who agreed to sacrificing the Little Red House with Sullivan while the Monarchs were opposed to this and were willing to sacrifice the Council and the Mounties to keep and study the Little Red House.

I think a connection between the Council and MM is likely in some way. We don’t know a lot about the group, aside from the fact that they encountered Sullivan while they were both extremely weak in Central Park and that they sent people to help the Mounties (as well as lending their power to the cause). There’s still a question of who they are though. Could they have splintered off from MM a long time ago? That’s a possibility. But the entity of MM that Mr. Wideawake worked with was definitely different from the Council.


You’re right the Council of the 18 Gates isn’t Monarchs Mountain, they’re most likely a group of individuals from The Order of the Monarchs that were trapped in the fray during the changing of the books.

I spent a long time looking over Mr Wideawakes conversation and later on in it says his associates are Monarchs Mountain.

“At first I thought he meant The Council of the 18 Gates, but then it occurred to me who he was talking about. The path of wool. He’s a member of Monarch’s Mountain.”

Also in regards to the two groups having a difference in opinion this can be easily explained as C18G being a split off from the Order and not MM. MM is the reorganised version of the Order after the change of books which explains why there is a difference in opinion. The C18G were trapped in the fray when the change occured. Furthermore if you were stuck in the fray you’d probably be trying your hardest to bring magiqual back as it could be the only way for them to escape.

As for Monarchs Mountain not being helpful remember they were decimated by a war and then we’re hunted by the silver. They don’t seem very helpful because their priorities are different. Also don’t forget that the C18G gave the book of briars to MM.

“their priority besides saving the world is convincing The Silver that they don’t exist.”

“They were willing to lose that access to help us and The Council to save The Book of Briars and stop the damage the Storm has done, but they didn’t realise what the cost would be.”

Another theory could be that MM is an alternate version of the Order but I’m not so sure

“Stories would have to be changed, characters rewritten, outcomes altered. And the ripples of all those changes would extend into the future chapters and the past.”


Sorry, that first bit was a product of phone typing in the morning.:sweat_smile: What I meant to say is that Mr. Wideawake discusses The Council of the 18 Gates as different from Monarch’s Mountain. The way he talks about them is like a sort of us vs them conversation. In the modern incarnations, Monarch’s Mountain is a separate entity from The Council of the 18 Gates. Though yeah, you’re absolutely right that they could have come from the same source. Honestly, that point seems rather brilliant to me, though, the fact that they might be splinter groups from the same organization.


I wouldn’t say that Mr Wideawake or MM have anything against the Council of 18 the Gates. Don’t forget this is all from Coles perspective and is his account so the us Vs them vibe is most likely coming from him. Also Mr Wideawake never really talks about the Council of the 18 Gates, he just mentions them vaguely


I will admit that I very purposely and carefully described big lore things in subjective ways. Subjective to whom you heard it from. No one, not even Sullivan, knows the 100% objective truth. But all the threads are there.


Are we anywhere near tying any of them together? :eyes: