Sun and Moon

So I’m not really sure where to put this so @Bash and @Endri feel free to move this!

So we know there are two types of guilds,
Sun guilds-Gossmere, Flinterforge, Weatherwatch
Moon guilds- Balimora,Thornmouth, Ebenguard

But I stumbled on something today and I can’t stop thinking about it. Each guild set has one that follows the heart, one that follows their mind, and a balance.

Flinterforge and Thornmouth-Mind

Am I just wearing a tinfoil hat?


You sound a lot like Robert right now :joy: it is an interesting observation!


I approve this message. I dunno though. I see Balimora more like balance between life and death myself.


I agree with Balimora being the balanced ones.

Weatherwatch follow their hearts, and their hearts scream “adventure”


Like I said its all speculation. But I don’t see Balimora as balance at all, rather a deep savage and beautiful choas.


I personally feel like Weatherwatch would be heart because their motto is “Searching for the endless fire” I think that takes a lot of heart, And being spontaneous


Personally I don’t really see anyone being a “balance” other than ebenguard! And if there is another balanced guild, I would think it would be gossmere. They think with their hearts but with them always trying to help those in need, they keep a sort of “balance”. Perhaps not one that is as strong as Ebenguardian balance, but a balance nonetheless.
It could also be that its not necessarily they keep a balance, is that they are a balance of sun and moon traits, whatever those are!


Weatherwatcher is not nessecarily balanced, but neutral. Weatherwatchers are very capricous Magi, they adapt to situations and use what’s appropriate. That’s why they’re such great adventurers. They work with the world around them to get through situations.


Well let me stress the strength of the guilds is that each member can have their own interpretation. So no one’s opinion is wrong, and it’s cool if we disagree. That said I strongly disagree, or at least fail to understand, the definition of Ebenguard as ‘balanced’. Yes, I know it says you follow the Golden Balance in the guide. But it also says this.

You are a figure for good, for right. You might have been born to be an advocate for justice or a champion for the subjugated, a mediator for forces at war or a storyteller illuminating those in shadow. No matter who you choose to be, when the scales tip to the side of disorder and darkness, you are called to right it, a warrior for peace and truth and harmony. For harmony and true peace are only possible through the dedication and diligence of those willing to swear their life’s work to it.

I love this goal. I support this goal. But this isn’t a balanced goal. Where’s the part where it says ‘If the forces of light tip the scales into conformity and oppression, you are called to right it?’ Sterotypical Ebenguards are ‘a figure for good, for right’ and ‘a warrior for peace, truth and harmony’. That’s picking a side. That’s an opinion. As long as the majority (say 51% to 100%) of the world agrees with it, everything is fine.

Now my favorite quite regarding Balimora is

You will bring shade where brightest, and light where darkest…

Sometimes darkness needs to exist. Yes, it has downsides but it does tremendous good also. It inspires courage, passion, and teamwork in overcoming it. Consequently the great acts of good inspire the darkness to be more methodical, ruthless and maniacal. That’s how the balance works. Each side complements and inspires the other to new greatness, new heights, and we all benefit from a lack of stagnation, innovation and self expression.

A world with only good is stale, colorless and without flavor. Beating back the darkness leads to a world of cold, bland potato soup. The Balimora know sometimes you need to mix it up a bit and throw some hot peppers in there. Sure, others may call us chaotic (I will have more to say about this elsewhere), but Balimora we know that the balance is ever shifting and what is fair today might be foul tomorrow, and visa versa.

That, in my opinion, is Balance.


@Robert Do you think in the past the Ebenguard and Balimora fought because one fights for light and the other for darkness, I’ve been wondering about this because the Ebenguard have the Golden Balance and the Balimora have the Great Chaos, so I was wondering if they had fought each other in the past. They seem to be so opposite I find it hard to believe that they would get along.


Robert… you have got to be a writer or something, cause that was marvelous.
I can understand that point of view, makes a lot of sense!

However, I guess this all kind of comes down to… is the positioning of the guild letters really that significant? Do they hold the meaning we are trying to put on them?
I think that almost all of the guilds have some kind of balance within them. Unlike the Ebenguards, its not a very central part of the guild, if you will. So, perhaps this balance may be about something else? Or perhaps there is not one at all!


Balance does not nessecarily entail that chaos needs to be eraticated, a good balance has a little bit of chaos.

I think Flinterforge is a better counterpart to Balimora, their intricate, sometimes delicaite technical work opposes the natural chaos of Balimora. I believe my position can be supported by the new logo.

The Basecamp 33 Community

I think the positioning is signifigant. Look -

Balimora - Great Natural Chaos || Flinterforge - Organized Technical Guild
Thornmouth - Intelligent Scholars That Follow an Eternal Flame of Knowledge || Gossmere - Kindhearted souls who value the heart
Weatherwatcher - Capricous Adventurers who adapt to any situation || Ebengaurd - Respectful Fighters who protect the light


True balance doesn’t necessarily mean that chaos needs to be eradicated, and the logos placement of the guilds respective initial does support your position. I was just speculating from a historical perspective, because it was already decided that the Balimora come from a druidic background and the Ebenguard remind me of the Romans in a way, so I was wondering if they had fought because their philosophies could of clashed in the past much like the philosophies of Rome and the Gaul’s.


@Alec I think Ebenguard and Balimora have probably had serious, at times heated, disagreements over the years. I doubt they actually fought though. Heck, I’m sure Balimora are more inclined to fight other Balimora than anyone else, actually.

When darkness holds sway, Ebenguard and Balmora nominally want the same thing, right?

When the light overpowers and threatens to extinguish the darkness, well then it gets complicated. Ebenguard are generally pretty happy, as long as the powers that be of light don’t get corrupted. Balmora are not happy in this situation though.

Now, will Balimora rise up and form a resistance army to storm the walls of Ebenguard and bring back the darkness? Of course not. But I think in that situation you’re going to see what a reputation for ‘chaos’ really means. It’s going to mean siding with the underdog, letting it speak, letting it grow. Sometimes prisoners will go missing. Sometimes the dam will break and order will have other things to worry about for a while.

It’s easy, as I often do, to fall into the trap of ‘light vs darkness’ or ‘order vs chaos’. There’s no teams here. There’s us, the world and the universe. We all, every guild, is doing what we think is best for this one team. We just disagree on the methods at times, and that’s okay.


@Robert that is an amazing way to put it, very eloquently stated and you’ve managed to weave the best parts of every theory into one beautiful tapestry, you really should be a writer.


Let me clarify,
I say balanced because of their locations on the compass. It appears Weatherwatch and Ebenguard stand in between Sun and Moon.


Which is why I think that perhaps both of them are not necessarily balanced in general, but have a balance of sun and moon “traits” or “characteristics”.


Thank you! I couldn’t figure out how to say that for some reason? Migraine is making my brain a bit foggy.


I just want to let you all know that you’ve sent me into a spiral of geeking out. I’ll explain what I mean soon…


Happy to inspire <3