Magiq Exploration: Ages as Books

Okay! Circling back to “Ages as Books” after we’ve had some time to think and process and do a little research, and I found something that I think is perfect to kick off our deeper exploration of The Age of Magiq.

So, the most concrete evidence we have to study regarding the question of periods of time as “books” comes from Deirdre’s conversation with Mr. Wideawake (yes, I’m aware how ridiculous it sounds that we’re taking the words of an anthropomorphic talking bird as concrete evidence.) For reference, here’s the first relevant part of their conversation:

“He said he didn’t know what was in The Book of Briars, which I thought was the obvious first question. He said some think it’s a new story wanting to be told, but no one knows for sure.”

Okay, so that checks out with everything we know so far. We know that this time, whatever it is, is ending, and what’s coming next is The Book of Briars. But Deirdre’s next question complicates things further:

“I asked him what Neithernor really was. How it came to be. He said according to what’s left of the Monarch history (which may not be completely accurate) there was experimentation with wells. They were hoping to find answers about our changed world in them, and sometime in the Book of The Wild someone managed to harvest a piece of the Fray deep within a well, to study, but it began to grow. They were afraid it would take over our world so they tried to send it back, but reaching out to The Fray is unpredictable and dangerous and it wouldn’t accept the piece. They tried to destroy it and thought they had but it actually grew just outside our world, and it eventually became Neithernor. A place where magiq and imagination could be fully realised without limit, without fear of misunderstanding or retribution, but with its own risks and dangers.”

This…is more difficult to follow. At least for me. I don’t think we really have a clear understanding of the Fray? Right? I feel like it’s still relevant to the “ages” discussion because whatever it is, it seems to be, at least from this example, kind of outside the bounds of the “books,” although I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the physics of that. Especially the bit about how the piece of it then became Neithernor. (Another question to explore in the future?)

What comes next is his explanation of the naming of The Book of the Wild and The Book of Kings, and the process of editing that would have had to go into changing them, which I didn’t include because it’s stuff we’re all pretty familiar with at this point. What I’m interested in is this:

“‘So someone edited out magiq,’ I said.

And he said ‘No. We believe someone edited out the Briar Books and all magiq followed after.’”

Okay. Cause and effect. We’re getting somewhere.

“I for some reason thought the Silver or the Storm had changed things but he said that no one knows who did it. But he knew it all came back to the Briar Books. The Little Red House. He said there’s something at the core of those books. They think it’s the source of great magiq. Magiq that someone changed all of history to erase. They don’t know who it was but they believe sometime around the early 2000s history was changed, and the ripples of that change moved outward until it had altered all known history. As far as they know only the wells, a handful of memories, and Neithernor survived.

It wasn’t the Monarchs and it wasn’t The Silver. He said it’s a mystery greater than any of this. And that’s why The Monarch houses want the book. (I was wondering what all of this was about. He hadn’t brought me to the warren just to answer all of my questions.) He said that the Monarch houses want The Little Red House, to protect it, to study it, to understand its place in the changing of The Book of The Wild.”

So nobody knows who the mysterious “editor” is, but we do know that the change from The Book of the Wild to The Book of Kings had everything to do with the Briar Books.

I think a few of the most obvious questions are:

  • Who? Who would have done this, and why?
  • What was it that warranted such drastic, and devastating action?
  • How were they able to do something like this?

Those are a few questions I have in addition to general questions about the ages, like how are they determined, who names them, are they just names or something more, etc. etc.

I’d love to hear your thoughts and questions, and as we come to some kind of consensus, I’ll update this initial post to reflect what we believe to be true. I’m moving the comments from our initial conversation over here so we can continue that conversation.


Hey guys, I have a kind of out-there idea so just bear with me.

I’ve been pretty overwhelmed lately with just how much we don’t know about our world, and the letter we just got back from the Neithercouriers both confirmed that and magnified it times ten. There’s so much that feels like it’s up for exploration and interpretation, like with the Guilds and their histories and affinities, but there are also a ton of smaller details that we know to definitively be true from The Monarch Papers and Secret Society, but tend to get lost in the crush of new information.

What I would love to do is to start opening some subjects up for discussion, so we can take what we do know, what we think we know, and what we believe, and use that as a starting point to ask more questions and maybe find some answers. When we come to something resembling consensus on a detail I will expand on the initial post, creating a sort of “canonized” current view of our weird and wacky world?

For starters, I’d love to nail down what exactly our universe really looks like, with what we know about the different eras being “Books” (Book of the Wild, Book of Kings, etc). Maybe it’s just me, but I’m finding the idea of living in some sort of multiverse increasingly difficult to visualize/wrap my head around. We know this “Book” is ending, and we know there was one that came before it, but just how extensive are those differences, and what will it look like once this Book closes? I mean, should I start doomsday prepping or is it something most people won’t even notice? I’m (optimistically) leaning towards the latter, but honestly, I have no idea and my grip on reality is steadily slipping.

So, Mounties, what do you think? Anybody up for some tinfoiling? :tinfoilhat:
If you guys are up for it, I can start getting something together in the next week or so.


So I’ve been thinking of it in terms of ages in the UK such as the Tudor, Edwardian and Victorian. When one book closes it’s more like moving on to a new age in the sense of a new king coming to the throne. The serfs don’t notice much but the higher up ranks are impacted much more. Now if we look at the closing of the books the serfs would be those unaware of magiq in the mundane they won’t notice the change but the higher up you go the more you notice the impact of the changing of the books. For us it’s seeming much like how the samurai saw the dawning age of industrial Japan. They were pretty high up the rank and because they didn’t change they weren’t able to enter the new age.


As a newcomer to all this I definitely have questions!

On the endings of “Books”…when the Book of the Wild ended, that’s when magiq was removed from memory and our world got retro-edited, yes? Most folks don’t seem to have noticed that, so I would bet that the opening of this new one won’t have too many ripples. Though I think @Rimor’s speculation is an apt one…I mean, our whole idiom is ascending a mountain, and you can see the connections between events much better from a high place. We might be in for a rougher change-over. Have to get new watches, and all that.

Is much known about what earlier Mountaineers experienced at the end of the BoW?


We kinda saw the end of the last book when we were communicating with the 94 Mounties through dream-ception but @Saberlane was there when it happened


Another thing I noticed about the ages of magiq it that they always have a great act of magiq occuring at the end of them. So the previous age had the great forgetting where the 94 Mounties hid themselves for the storm. This age seems to be ending in a similar fashion but with the leaden veil drawing closed much like a theaters curtains close on the last act. The Great act of magiq that this age will end with is us piercing the veil and bringing magiq back. Unless of course we fail and lose each other in the folds of the veil as it chokes magiq from the world, scattering us isolated from each other across the globe unable to find one another ever again…


This is a perfect example of why this topic especially is so confusing!

As far as we know (and someone correct me if I’m wrong), we don’t actually know exactly when the last age ended and this age, The Book of Kings, began. From what I’ve gathered, The Book of the Wild didn’t necessarily come before The Book of Kings chronologically (or at least not in the way that we usually think about time), but was written over and made into The Book of Kings. Like, they’re the same, but not? Almost like…an edited google doc? I don’t know, I’m struggling for analogies here :grimacing:


Like a painting hiding another more wonderous painting below?


That’s what we know as of now, per Mr. Wideawake. The Book of The Wild was rewritten into The Book of Kings. We don’t know how long this book is, only that it’s now ending. It could’ve stretched back to Anne of Brittany for all we know, or further. (I am hypothesizing, please disregard my random example.) There most likely was a book before TBoTW/BoK but as far as I know, we don’t know any name for previous ages except for the names of the four Time fragments. @Catherine, you’ll have to shuffle these replies over to your post when you create it, I’m loving all of the theories and exploration.


Exactly! That reminds me of the John Dee painting they uncovered in 2016. Magic hidden in the mundane.


So the book of the wild was half written before being written over by the book of kings when magiq was hidden. So technically one age did end by being hidden by a false age design to hid the previous age from the world

(Massive oversimplification and obviously not accurate in how much the book of wilds was written)


Living in the publishing world, Catherine and I keep thinking of The Book of The Wild as having undergone a MASSIVE page one rewrite, where most references to magiq (and the Lost Collection) were removed to leave us with a new but similar story called The Book of Kings.


Like an over zealous editor


Like my very anti-genre fiction teacher in college… :readerexpressionless:


For some bizarre reason (maybe just by virtue of the amount of time I’ve spent around here now) the concept of the different “Books” makes sense to me, in the “edited document” explanation mainly. I once saw them as “alternate dimensions” that simultaneously co-exist, but I don’t think that’s true, at least chronologically beyond the point where things changed.

What nags at me when I’m doing quiet, mindless things is: What happened to the people living in the Book of the Wild when things changed? We have a first hand account of it via Avis Green. But where is she in the Book of Kings? Was she still Sullivan’s sister, but Dierde didn’t know her/never mentioned her? Was her identify, her personhood, changed as well, and she was no longer a Green? What is she doing, right now, at this very moment, in the Book of Kings?


Thing is… I think many of us could have existed in some form in the BoTW.

Martin remembered The Little Red House, so he was there, right? Endri remembered The Guide to Magiq, so her too. According to Avis’ journal, Warner existed in both times too, and Sullivan. But as far as we know, there’s no Avis here. So many things are similar, but not everyone made it through the “rewrite.”

And how does that trickle down through generations? Was Aisling there? If not, no Deirdre?


I think my question for this is… where do these old books go? Is it like a wiki, where you can see the history of revisions? Or like having more than one edition of a book, where you can see how the different books change?

I’m having a hard time grappling with this. The power to write someone in and out of existence…that’s difficult to comprehend.


I think about Avis a lot, especially since we still have her journal in the office. That’s one of the parts of this that nags at me the most too. Differing timelines are one thing to comprehend, but entire people being “edited,” to the point of potential nonexistence? It’s too weird, and weirdly sad.


I have lots of thoughts about this. Most likely I’m overthinking (Spoiler alert for new people: Here’s how you can tell Robert is overthinking…he’s typing.)

  1. I have a problem with ‘history’. I had enough trouble paying attention to history in school and finding a use for it. Now it turns out none of it may have “actually happened”? If everything was retroactively rewritten from some point in the 90’s / 2000’s…is it just a pale copy of events from the BoW, or ‘actual organic history’?

Did a specific event happen on May 12th 1850 because that was the outcome of events before it and decisions made by people in the BoK, or because someone took the real May 12th 1850 and just struck a few lines out? Meaning our history actually makes no sense and has no real lessons to teach because we don’t have all the actual info?

  1. As others have said. I hurt my head to wrap around people being edited out or in.

I dislike the thought of trying to ‘fix’ whatever happened to move the BoW to the BoK? What if I’m edited out when things go back? What if my friends are family are edited out, but i’m not?

If you were to tell me right now we could ‘fix’ this and bring the BoW back, I’ll be honest, I’d probably not go along with that. I’m sorry for what happened to them. But doing the same to us wouldn’t make it right.


Also, I’d love to know the precision involved in the editing.

Was this a simple ‘find and replace’ magiq with non-magiq, or did whoever do this have very finely tuned control over all this?

Heck, maybe the Green family wasn’t the pinnacle of magiq skill in the BotW? Maybe there were hundreds of thousands of Cagliostro level powered people running around and were such obvious threats they were precisely edited out from history forever. Maybe their wipe was nearly perfect and nothing of them was left in the BoK except for the odd folk story here and there, Merlin, Baba Yaga, and so on.

AGP might just have been the top of the list of people/places that weren’t targeted for ‘special exact elimination’, so by process of elimination this is where all the magiq got left too. Maybe there were thousands of plans like the last figuration that were eliminated and by the time they spent all their energy when they got to AGP on the list they were like ‘Meh, what are the odds it’ll work?’.

I’m done for now…probably.